May 7, 2004 Competition…Great Isn’t It?
Apparently there is a new contender for the Asia Blog Awards. The original idea was hosted by Phil over at Flying Chair. Six months after the first Asia Blog Awards, Giles at Misohoni is launching his own version of the ceremony. Well, it is his own version, right? Guess so since he says on his site he uses a different back-end than what Phil uses and it promises to be real-time thing with live statistics.
Fair enough although he could have gone just a little further and named the thing differently than exactly the same name as Phil’s. But then Asia Blog Awards is a name is perfectly generic enough for it to be ineligible for copyrighting.
But alas, this move by Giles hasn’t gone down too well with the grand-daddies (stature not age) of the blogging community. Phil’s feeling robbed of his ideas and I can’t exactly blame him since he worked long and hard at organising the last event. Shaky’s limited himself to two penneth worth of commentary on it. And Conrad at Gweilo Diaries is his usual eloquent self, putting to use complicated insulting terms like “rude shit”, and dictating the behaviour of other people. He even goes into a lecture of intellectual property. According to him, Hong Kongers have a hard time understanding this. Apparently he also has a hard time understanding copyright on images which also falls under these intellectual property rights laws that he flouts in our faces.
Okay, I digress but I had to take the opportunity to point out Conrad’s hypocrisy for all to see. Yep, I really don’t like the guy. Free speech is wonderful, ain’t it?
Right back on topic. While I sympathise with Phil for his idea being replicated, it shouldn’t really be a problem. His idea originally came from another Awards ceremony that he felt understated the whole Asian blogging community. He improved that idea and launched the Asia Blog Awards. Now Giles has come along and apparently improved the technical aspects of such a ceremony with his own blog awards offering. Fair enough and I don’t think he’s breaking any official laws here. He might be upsetting the “unwritten laws of blogging” which I still have yet to see a copy of, but that’s about it. And at that, it’s not a big thing. If it is for you, then maybe you should consider getting a life?
Conrad, with his wonderfully narrow pundit’s mind, quotes the standard international copyright law definition “When someone has an original idea and creates, promotes and exploits it for his own benefit, it belongs to its creator.” I can’t agree that the Asia Blog Awards was all that much of original idea. It’s a popularity voting scheme. It didn’t do it in any novel or original context. BlogShares was a novel idea in the way that allowed people to rank the popularity of blogs and so on. It probably has more legal standing to claim to be an original idea than the Asia Blog Awards.
But then how far do we take this idea of original idea? Should Pepsi be out of business because the idea for a carbonated cola soft drink was originally Coke’s idea? Should all those reader’s opinion polls run by FHM and Maxim magazines try to spend time to find out about who the originator of that idea and close down their polls or the pay royalties to that party? Should I sue the folks who happen to go the same bar as me and came after me because I had the original idea to go to that bar and exploit it for my own benefit (benefit = enjoyment)?
The point to this is that even the great nations that bully the rest of the world with their intellectual property rights are based on the one thing essential cornerstone of a free market economy. Competition. The laws in these countries run along the similar premise of competition through differentiation. It might be a small differentiation (e.g. Coke and Pepsi) or it might be a large one. This differentiation can be intrinsic to the product or service, such as a particular feature, or it might be extrinsic such as catering to a specific lifestyle, e.g. through branding.
We, as consumers or as an audience, are entitled to choice. If we continue to stamp out competition, then we as consumers suffer from that. Would you enjoy driving that one make and model of car for your entire life? Maybe you would enjoy also reading the same newspaper for the rest of your life? Or the first original blog? Great stuff. I’ve already got my tickets booked for Dullsville, Nation of the Autocratic. Better yet, let me write a letter to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.
Phil cannot expect that his idea wouldn’t be replicated by anyone in the future. Especially if it was a good idea. Yes, I understand that he would be feeling a little pissed because someone has done something similar to him, given the hard work that he’s put into it. But Giles too has put his own hard work into it, designing his own system. Does he offer a differentiation? Yes, a slight one but it is a differentiation nonetheless. Perhaps he could have been more diplomatic and packaged the front end a little more differently so instead of “Asia Blog Awards” named it Misohoni’s Asia Blog Awards. Phil, likewise, can claim to be the “Original Asia Blog Awards” and he definitely has rights to “Flying Chair’s Asia Blog Awards”.
So in the end, it will all come down to market competition. People will decide whether or not they will accept the newcomer and whether it will be a success or not. Maybe two different audiences will populate both Awards systems. The market will determine whether there is space for two blog awards systems. Both will just have to work harder to establish themselves as the definitive results of whose popular and who’s not.
I wonder if Conrad was as high and mighty about SeeLai “borrowing” his idea to provide titillation on his blog? Anyway, good luck to both Phil and Giles with their respective blogging awards for Asia. Perhaps Yahoo! is also busy chasing up after all those search engines that borrow their directory idea?
Tags: Surfer Rants
- 11 comments
- Posted under Blog
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Giles
said
What better way to promote yourself, but through the Best Blogs in Asia site – http://www.misohoni.com/awards.php da da
Permalink #
Eshin
said
Okay perhaps there is a misunderstanding here.
I’m not taking pot shots at you. I know you didn’t say that no-one else can have that idea. All I was doing was illustrating that it would be a little ridiculous, if say, hypothetically, that you would be so inclined to do so.
And yes, I do appreciate the history lesson. If I am wrong about the facts, then I’ll admit it. Evidently, I was wrong about See Lai borrowing from Conrad.
I’m not considering you a foe to be honest. I’m sorry if you get that impression.
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Eshin
said
Good that we got that cleared up.
And thanks… although I’m sure you’ll be bored soon enough!
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Ron
said
No hard feelings Eshin and, tell you what…
I like your blog and style. I will be a regular reader.
Cheers!
Permalink #
Eshin
said
Well, thanks for the history lesson, Ron.
I stand appropriately corrected on that point then.
One wonders then whether I should be asking your permission to run a “Top 100 Sexiest Asian Women” style poll system on my site (as suggested by this post).
Of course, if not, then I’d like it noted for the record it was my idea (if I was the first) so any subsequent Top 100 Sexiest Asian Women is now copyright by me, patent pending, etc. etc. Blah blah blah. It gets a little ridiculous if we start to copyright certain generic ideas.
Incidentally, See Lai is probably more suited to running such a poll than this site. So knock yourself out on that idea. It would be interesting to see so long as it isn’t completely dominated by porn stars.
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Ron
said
I think you are mistaken.
See Lai did NOT borrow Conrad or Gweilo Diaries idea of girlies or models.
In fact, my first girlie pics were saying goodbye to Kaila Yu and I gave adequate credit to Conrad for Kaila’s introduction.
After that, I created a weekly, monthly, yearly model contest (mainly featuring Asian Models) and that was my idea (as far as I am aware) with reasonable polls.
And remember, I also re-hosted the Miss Chinese contest after thanking and informing the original contest sponsors.
I do not see ANY model contest at Gweilo Diaries or if I am mistaken, I will be glad for you to point out any similarities.
The reason why Conrad has had no problems with that is because, his girlie pictures, and my girlie section, including daily pictures with picture appraisals and comments are totally different.
Cheers!
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Ron
said
You still miss the point.
I did not say that no one else can have Asian model polls because I came up with the idea.
Hell, if you visit some other Hong Kong bloggers, you will see that they too started polls about Asian women or female news reporters, or what have you, after I started.
In fact, I helped some of those bloggers with the HTML code for putting links in the poll host code.
About this latest Asia Web log Awards and all that, I don’t give a damn either way as I have always tried to stay out of such awards (including Phil’s last year – I can gladly point you to the post at my site where I stopped my readers from voting for me in the previous Asia Weblog Awards).
I was just clarifying that my idea was not new and definitely not copied from Conrad. Whereas in your post you seem to indicate that I was following Conrad or what have you.
Perhaps, there is a giant internet cache somewhere and perhaps a site called http://www.itere.com (belonged to me but now no more) and it’s cached pages from 1999 do exist somewhere.
The same weekly, monthly, yearly model picture thingy was posted there (by me).
Another history lesson for you then…
Gweilo Diaries was nowhere on the scene in 1999.
I don’t consider you a foe, too bad mutual feelings aren’t the same.
Enough said about I, I, me, me, now why don’t we, the Hong Kong bloggers, reach a consensus and promote ourselves to the world instead of this never ending thingy?
Cheers!
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Phil
said
Eshin, you are missing one vital point. Giles sent everyone emails saying he was hosting it because I was too busy.
There is a significant difference between a regionalised distinct idea (which differed in form and process as well as geography from its ackowledged inspiration) and a near copy followed by a hurried change of name. The fact that he uses PHPBB polls for the backend rather than the self-built software of the first one does not make it different enough.
Your point about the cola drink is good and if I remember rightly there were law suits galore in the old days. Needless to say – even if you were right, the misleading emails (where he mistook an email saying I was planning on hosting it as its own entity for yes of course you can host it) and the original name sort of gives away his thinking n’est pas?
He was specifically riding on my original work which very much implies IP – you don’t have to have a commercial product to be protected.
As I said somewhere else, this saddens me because I like Giles and he has contributed a lot at flyingchair including ideas for a new logo.
However, as someone who is talking to potential sponsors so that this event can get some real promotion and go to a much higher level in terms of publicity and winners returns, the stakes are a little higher than what some people in the blogosphere have to say.
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Eshin
said
I don’t think I’m missing the point.
Asia Blog Awards is generic enough a title for it to be non-copyrightable. Much in the same way that a store that sells vegetables cannot concretely claim exclusivity to the name Vegetable Shop.
I know that a name cannot be copyrighted under UK law for example. If ownership needs to be established, it has to be registered as a trademark, and thus a graphic or a logo need to be submitted. Then, also, I think uniqueness needs to be established.
So hence, your custom designed logo might be considered your Intellectual Property. If Giles used your original logo then that might be grounds for legal action. Textually and name wise, Asia Blog Awards is not probably not sufficient for you to be claiming ownership of that name.
If what happened initially happened, it sounds like a big miscommunication error. Of course it might not have been. But if you do feel aggrieved, I believe you should be looking under passing off law, misrepresentation, or even fraud – the concept of representing a body when you don’t have their permission to represent them is probably covered under law. I don’t think IP law is the right area for you to build a case.
Of course, I might be wrong, but this is what I’ve learned setting up business in the UK and working with brands over the years. As I said in subsequent post, it’s always best to take it to court if you feel aggrieved about it. Opinions from the blogosphere on points of law shouldn’t be taken as the barometer of correct or incorrect.
And if you are someone who is talking to potential sponsors of your event, I’d suggest you focus your energies on making sure that they want to pick you rather than Giles for the sponsorship money.
“But it was my idea first!” isn’t a credible argument in front of sponsors who want to see a return on their investment. They probably won’t care about the niceties of who was first and who was second but instead on who can deliver them the audience.
Good luck to you with your Awards thing too. I’m not picking sides (well, any side’s except Gweilo Diaries), and just talking about points of law as I see it. I really am sitting on the fence on this one.
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Eshin
said
Well, it’s always good to have new readers. Now I can claim a readership of at least five!
Well, I guess I should be grateful to Giles for bringing this controversy into the blogging world. It got me two new readers by the looks of things.
I think the matter with Ron was settled up. As I said, I was wrong about my assertion but you are right, I was looking for an example. And I appreciate him pointing it out to me so that other people can see the corrected story on that.
I’ve always maintained that Giles is entitled to run his own poll thing, but I’ve also felt that the launch was a little messy. Using the same name, and the reference to Phil’s version was probably a big faux-pas legally. There is following in someone’s footsteps and then there’s riding on someone’s coat-tails. But better legal experts than myself will have to debate that.
In the end, time will tell who has the better awards ceremony. The first-to-market always has a better time of it, especially if they were good, and Phil’s was. It’s always on the newcomer’s shoulders to prove that they really do provide a better alternative than the first.
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fumier
said
I’m a new visitor to this site, which I am now adding to my links because I like the writing.
I would like to confirm that my Totty Poll was inspired (if that is the word) by Ron’s Model Polls. However, my contestants are newsreaders, actresses, politicians and even regular people, and sadly I am unable to find pictures of them without clothes. I can imagine ….but it’s not the same thing. Indeed, for some of them I cannot find any pictures at all. You might even say that my poll is largely text-based, perhaps therefore more of a spoof poll.
Anyway, I digress. Ron did indeed give me help on putting the HTML code in, as well as on other tecnical problems which I, as someone whose technology ceiling is somewhere in the basement, have had from time to time. For all of which, I am grateful.
Indeed, it was Ron who put me onto Typepad when I was thinking about graduating from placing inane comments on other people’s blogs to creating a whole blog to showcase my stupid comments.
Ron is someone who is extremely generous to other bloggers. Why, he even links to NTSCMP!
I think you two guys were at slightly cross-puproses, which it seems you have sorted out. I didn’t read Eshin’s comments as suggesting Ron had copied anything (which he hasn’t) – merely making a point by analogy.
Eshim makes some good points on the copyright question – somewhat more sensible and measured than those made over at Gweilo Diaries.
However, I think Giles did misjudge things in two ways – one by use of exactly the same name as Phil had used, even _if_ the name is too generic to be copyrightable, and also, as Phil (whom I met for a beer at the _exact_ time as this thing blew up) points out, by stating that he was doing it _because_ Phil was too busy – thereby implying that his poll was the same. I say ‘misjudge’ – I am giving no opinion on the legal issue.
Anyway, Giles’s poll (renamed) is up and running, though there are not yet many votes, and hence the results are so far very skewed. My opinion is that the existence of a second poll will merely publicise blogs in general and will highlight Fliying Chair as the market leader.